Senior Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader, a veteran politician, and former Governor of Manipur - Najpa Heptulla talks in detail about her relationship with Indira and Sonia Gandhi, the rise in political targeting of Muslims, and the way forward for the Manipur crisis.
What inspired you to write your autobiography now, at this point in your life?
It was my daughter Asma. She was telling me I must write something about about what I have seen in the book, and it will be because I worked. I grew up in a place where Muslim women 100 years ago were ruling Bhopal. So, that was something important, because they say women should sit at home, they shouldn't do anything. But at that time, you know, in those days, women could rule. Then my grandmother, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad's sister, was director of women's education in Bhopal. So, that inspired me that women can do anything. And so this experience, I wanted to put on record and my daughter was very keen. She helped me a lot to do it.
You have spoken at length about your relationship with Indira Gandhi in the book and, you know, you have for the past decade seen the tenure of Prime Minister Narendra modi in this country. Is there any commonality between the two leaders that you find?
Indira was a very, very strong woman after she came back to power. In the beginning, of course, she was new to politics, but when she came back to power and in 1980, she was a very different woman - ruthless, strong, clear in her mind and a very, very strong lady.I admired her and she supported me when I was in the Parliament. And then she was assassinated. But she was a great leader. And then I worked under Mr. Modi and I was Modiji's, minority Minister.
And minority does not only mean Muslims. It is Jains, Buddhist, Christians. So, I looked at the minority in the whole totality and studied what are their issues and what which area they have to be supported. Modiji never interfered in my work.
I focussed on all the minority, not just flowing. I'm a minister for Muslim Affairs. I was minister for minorities.
You know, speaking about Muslims, we are kind of seeing an overlap of religion and politics to a very large extent. And the campaigns from, a lot of political campaigns have also become highly, very, very highly polarized, where certain leaders of the BJP are also accused of, propagating, hate, seeing certain statements against the Muslims, etc. From your time with the Congress to now, the past two decades with the BJP, how have you seen polarisation and communal politics transition in this country?
You see, unfortunately, polarisation started with partition of the country. It was Mr Jinnah who made this division between Hindus and Muslims. Though Mr Jinnah was not a practicing Muslim, he was not a Sunni, he was a Khoja. He didn't know Urdu, he never read the Quran, he never prayed. He was not a practicing Muslim though Maulana Azad was. He wrote the translation, the transcription of Quran into audio, explaining what the message in the Quran is that you live with in your religion and faith and I live with my religion and my faith.
BJP is not a religious party, it is a political party, the Congress the Communists, the Janata Dal these are political parties, not religious. Why they use religion and emotions in the elections? they should use who did good job, who is focused on education, on empowerment of women, on job development, skill development for people, their progress. When the elections come, they come and start talking about the Hindus, the Muslim... Why? We all are one.
You think the political targeting of Muslims has become more blatant in the recent times. For example, if you look at the TV media of India today, there is a jihad angle in almost every other thing. In the recent Maharashtra elections, the current chief minister and former deputy chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis called the Lok Sabha results of Maharashtra as 'vote jihad.'Do you think blatant political targeting of Muslims has seen a rise in the past few years?
No, no, it's always been their opinion. It's only during the time of Indira Gandhi, all this was not there in that 1980 election. It was more for stability and development. Rajiv Gandhi brought a maximum ever majority for the Congress party, which was also not good because there were no Opposition. So, Rajiv Gandhi lost within two years. But it has become much more and I don't know why.
And not bring religion into politics?
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They should not! BJP is a party anybody can join. It doesn't stop muslims joining it.
But we don't see representation of Muslims. If you look at the data over the years, representation of Muslims in the Parliament has gone down in the previous Lok Sabha elections. Also, the parties had not fielded any Muslim candidates. So basically what's happening is the disproportion of the population of the Muslims and theis representation in the Assemblies and in the Parliament is getting wider and wider. Why do you think that is and what needs to be done?
Because the political parties are not focusing on them. They are using them as vote bank. And for the Lok Sabha elections especially, and the state elections of the the lower houses, which are directly elected, what a political party looks at is the ability to win elections. So, if you if they involve them at the grassroots level, at the party level to work in the constituencies, then there will be winnability and they can win an election.
I always said don't shun any political party, look at who is going to take care of your interests and join it. So, the thing is to involve them Mulayam Singh Yadav's son, he's involving them and he's bringing them is also. The other people are people are also children are doing it.
If the Muslims don't join BJP at the ground level, how can we find candidates?
There are certain events that might have led to the trust deficit of Muslims with the parties party. Do you think the party could have done more politically in order to fill that trust deficit, or do you think it has done enough?
It is both the side I heard the speeches of those religious Muslim religious leaders as well. This Jihad word - who brought it?
Jihad is to do your own self for your own desire, not against people. That time of Prophet Muhammad is not there. We are not going to fight with the sword. So, this word jihad, they should not use it in an election. I heard it in America when I saw on the television... the speeches. But why you do this?
Similarly, if they do it, the Hindus will do it. It's a vice versa. If Hindus do it, the Muslim do it. These religious people should remain to do their job for which they are trained, and let the people decide on the issues of education, development, job creation.
But when the word jihad is used by media channels, which has become a very, very blatant thing, especially in the Hindi media, and also similarly by Mr Devendra Fadnavis, who is now the Chief Minister. The entire campaign ran on the fact, on the agenda of vote jihad, that the Muslims voted against us so it was voter jihad. When that word penetrates those circles, doesn't that become a bigger problem?
Yeah, I know I saw the when they brought the word jihad. The Hindus don't know the meaning of jihad. If you ask any of my Hindu friends, they will not understand what is jihad. It is the Arabic word, not a Hindi word or even an Urdu word.
Why these people use word jihad. What they are doing? Just going and putting a word. Jihad means you fight for some cause. But what is the cause? Here it is your own interest.
Today, the pen has replaced the sword. It is the pen which is more important. It is your brain which is more important. Think about it. Don't just be emotional. Both Hindus and Muslim, they should think what is good for them.
You've spoken at length about your relationship with Sonia Gandhi. She and you have spoken about how you felt that she did not trust you. Why do you think there was a trust deficit when it came to Sonia Gandhi from her side?
I don't know, but, now it is over. I do want to discuss this matter but whether it is her anybody, any leader you worked with, the leader must have trust and confidence.
If the leader doesn't trust you in spite of knowing me for such a long time... working with Indira Gandhi, working with Rajiv Gandhi, whether they were in power or out of power. Looking at my background, also...I came from a family which contributed in the in the in the freedom struggle with Nehru ji and Gandhi ji, Sardar Patel and others. Now to mistrust me, it is highly hurtful.
Do you think these issues were only for you, or was that a period for her where she had trust issues with a lot of people?
Yeah, many people left because there were too many layers between her and those people around her. The staff especially, was not trained to know who is who. Indira Gandhi used to tell people, so we were always treated with respect.
You have been the governor of Manipur in the past, and the state has seen unprecedented unrest over the past several several months now. A lot of people say that if it was the older times, something of this scale would have called for the resignation of the Chief Minister, to say the least.
You see, when I was made the governor of Manipur, I called the leaders of the both Nagas, Kukis and Meiteis. They are the three major communities and told them to come and talk. I said, if you don't talk to government, talk in my building, which is not under the state government. So, they sat and they talked and they settled. And they were peace. So much peace that he President came to visit, the vice president came to address, a conference. The prime minister came.
They were election and the government was formed. It was a BJP government.
And later on when I left, things were all right. But I don't know what happened again, that they started fighting. Even today I'm getting messages that we miss you, come back because there was so much violence and we feel insecure. I told the I will pray for you but I cannot come back.
Somebody should take note of it and create a dialoge between the people and I'm sure things will improve, whatever action they have to take. There's no Governor since the last Governor left and nobody's is there that the people can go and talk to.
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